This chapter presents a transcript of Suzuki Roshi's fourth talk on the Sandokai. It focuses on these lines from the poem: All the objects of the senses interact and yet do not. Interacting brings involvement. Otherwise, each keeps its place. Roshi begins by saying that the characteristic of Buddha's teaching is to go beyond things — beyond various beings, ideas, and material things. When we say “truth,” we usually mean something we can figure out. The truth that we can figure out or think about is ji. When we go beyond subjective and objective worlds, we come to the understanding of the oneness of everything, the oneness of subjectivity and objectivity, the oneness of inside and outside.
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